[Music]
[音乐]
[Laughter]
[笑声]
I I said this in a movie once everyone
我在电影中说过这句话，一旦每个人都
knows the same truth and our lives
知道同样的真相，而我们的生活
consist of how we choose to distort
就是我们选择如何扭曲
it I am kind of amazed at what uh
它，我对呃
Lawrence and Richard are doing because
劳伦斯和理查德正在做的事情感到有点惊讶，因为
they are walking into some pretty
他们正在走进一些非常
prickly Arenas and uh they have no armor
刺痛的地方 阿里纳斯和呃，
other than their own mental
除了他们自己的智力之外，他们没有任何盔甲，
faculties I think what these two men are
我认为这两个人
doing out there promoting a scientific
在那里所做的促进科学
worldview is is uh something of Great
世界观的事情是呃，具有很大价值的东西，
Value because it is part of what
因为这是
humanity is all about to be curious to
人类都将好奇地
understand uh what is the real world
理解的一部分。 我们周围的真实世界是什么，
surrounding
us and this is what I love about science
这就是我对科学的热爱，
is that it's just it's knowledge and
它只是它的知识，
knowledge is ower and you empowers you
知识就是你的权利，你赋予你力量，
and it and it frees you because then
它让你自由，因为这样
you're not stuck you're not you're no
你就不会被困住，你就不是你了
longer stuck where you've been or where
不再被困在你去过的地方或
somebody else has been stuck there are
别人被困的地方
no scientific authorities there are
没有科学权威有
scientific experts Richard knows a lot
科学专家理查德对动物学了解很多
about zoology I know a lot about physics
我对物理学了解很多
but there's no one whose views are not
但没有人的观点
subject to question
不受质疑
science just seeks the truth without
科学只是寻求 不带
prejudice For Better or Worse it it
偏见的真理 无论好坏，它并
doesn't say should I find this out it
没有说我是否应该发现这一点，
says can I and that's the point about
而是说我可以，这就是
beliefs they don't change the facts
信仰的要点，它们不会改变事实，
facts if you're rational should change
如果你是理性的，事实就应该改变
your beliefs throughout history new
你的信仰，纵观历史新
discoveries have challenged existing
发现有 挑战现有
beliefs religion is no
信仰宗教也不
exception religion is just like any
例外宗教就像任何
other topic and should not be sacran at
其他话题一样，根本不应该是神圣的
all you should be able to discuss Rel
你应该能够讨论相对
religion why not I think religion should
宗教为什么不我认为宗教应该
be open to discussion I think everything
开放讨论我认为一切都
should be I think when you make things
应该是我认为当你制作东西时
taboo even when you feel like you're
即使你觉得你在
protecting it it's it's not for the
保护它，这也是禁忌，这不是为了
greater good we cannot close down a
更大的利益，我们不能结束
conversation about a set of beliefs that
关于一系列信念的对话，这些信念
lead to actions which um affect all of
会导致影响我们所有人的行动，所有
us all that stuff I was taught about
这些都是我学到的关于
Evolution Big Bang Theory
进化大爆炸理论的东西
all that is lies straight from the pit
所有这些都直接来自
of Hell this is the trouble with ethics
地狱的深渊，这是伦理
and morality and the big questions and
和道德的麻烦，也是重大问题，
the fact that religions think they own
事实上，宗教认为他们拥有
that conversation quite the contrary
这种对话，恰恰相反，
they kill that conversation and I think
他们扼杀了这种对话，我认为
we follow people who have courage you
我们追随那些有勇气的人，你
know to think about things that we
知道 想想我们
haven't thought about before and uh in
以前没有想过的事情，呃，在
these times where intolerance is kind of
这个不宽容是
a championed um I'm pretty impressed
一种拥护的时代，嗯，我印象深刻的是，
that uh that someone is uh taking on the
呃，有人正在接受这个
the quest that's what I get from these
任务，这就是我从这些
guys the permission to question
人那里得到的许可 质疑
everything Richard 10 years ago I asked
理查德 10 年前，我
you the question in the in the popular
在流行的写作和演讲中问过你这个问题，
writing and speaking that you do which
is what's more important in some sense
if you had a choice which is to explain
如果你有一个选择，是解释
science or destroy religion oh I think
科学还是摧毁宗教，从某种意义上来说，哪个更重要 哦，我认为
when they go together because I mean
当他们在一起时，因为我的意思是
destroy religion makes it sound negative
摧毁宗教，这对我来说听起来是消极的，
to me it's a positive thing science is
这是一件积极的事情，科学是
wonderful science is beautiful and uh
美妙的，科学是美丽的，呃，
religion is not wonderful it's not
宗教并不美妙，它不
beautiful it gets in the way there are
美丽，它会妨碍
all sorts of other things wrong with it
其他各种错误的事情 有了它，
but I mostly care about truth the beauty
但我最关心的是真理，
of Truth The Poetry of reality which is
真理之美，现实的诗意，这
is science and the fact that religion as
是科学，事实上，宗教作为
a scientific explanation but it is a
一种科学解释，但它是一种
competing scientific explanation it's so
相互竞争的科学解释，它是如此
dull it's so boring it's so petty it's
乏味，如此无聊，如此琐碎，它
wrong too and it's also wrong yes which
也是错误的，它是 也是错的，是的，
I think is probably even more more
我认为这可能更
important
重要是
yeah I I think the same as you I want
的，我和你一样，我希望
people to understand how the universe
人们了解宇宙是如何
really works as an aside ultimately is
真正运作的，最终是
this other incompatibility between
science and religion that when when when
科学和宗教之间的另一种不相容性，当
empirical evidence tells you something
经验证据告诉你一些东西时
you have to accept it when you give up
当你放弃这一点时，你必须接受它，
that by saying I can believe this myth
说我可以相信这个神话
and fairy tale then it opens you up to
和童话，然后它会让你接触到
lots of other things and and so it's not
很多其他的事情，所以
innocuous and inevitably when you have
当你必须面对你不可避免地创造的现实世界时，它不是无害的，也是不可避免的
to deal with the real world you
inevitably make bad decisions if we can
如果我们
get people to believe that then it's
能让人们相信这一点，那么就很
easy to convince or should be easy to
容易说服或者应该很容易让
convince people that evolution is true
人们相信进化论是正确的，
because the evidence is so strong once
因为证据是如此有力，一旦
you tell them the evidence for evolution
你告诉他们进化论的证据，
they oh right okay so much for
他们就可以了，哦，好吧，非常感谢
God
上帝
[Applause]
[掌声]
well tonight uh Richard is in Sydney
今晚很好，理查德在悉尼，
while I'm in canra uh and he is uh going
而我在坎拉，他将在
to debate on TV on a television program
一个名为“悉尼大主教问答”的电视节目中进行辩论，
called Q&A the Archbishop of Sydney and
I'm here in cber debating a Muslim
我是 在 cber 辩论一项穆斯林
debate initiative and we're both sort of
辩论倡议时，我们都
launching out against the forces of evil
in different places and that that poetry
在不同的地方发起反对邪恶势力的活动，而据我所知，这首诗
was too compelling to
太引人注目了，无法
resist as far as I can see this this
抵抗，
this event has been advertised only in
这一活动仅在
the Muslim
穆斯林
Community except for the few people I've
社区，除了我
told about it no one will know about it
告诉过的少数人之外，除了穆斯林社区之外，没有人会知道它，
except for the Muslim Community so it'll
所以这将
be an interesting
是一个有趣的
audience
观众
oh oh look at that look over there
哦哦，看看那边的样子，
that's fascinating that may be our
很迷人，可能就是我们的
audience right there by the way that
could be
可能是这样的，
it hi how you
嗨，你
doing nice to see
做得很好，见到
youj I'm
你，我是
the oh oh okay hi do so the other person
哦，哦，好吧，嗨，所以另一个人
is going to talk that's right okay but
会说话，这是正确的，但
but it's interesting I looked online I
很有趣，我在网上查看，我
didn't see a single advertising for it
没有看到任何广告
so oh well it'll be interesting to see
哦，好吧，
see how I have a rule if there's less
看看我如何制定规则，如果
than five people we just go for coffee
少于五个人，我们就去喝咖啡，
okay does that sound good well I'm going
好吧，这听起来不错，好吧，我要去，我
to I'm going to sit in the back now and
现在要坐在后面，
and read my Bible which
读我的圣经，
is I just thought I'd pick it up for
我只是想拿起它来获得
inspiration Christ always inspires
灵感基督总是激励
me
我
uh Cardinal George pel is the most
呃红衣主教乔治·佩尔是
senior Roman Catholic in Australia he's
澳大利亚最资深的罗马天主教徒他是
the Archbishop of Sydney and uh I know
悉尼大主教，呃我
rather little else about him I'm
对他知之甚少我是
afraid and he sometimes talked about as
害怕，他有时被谈论
a possible candidate for
为教皇的可能候选人
Pope I have always refused to debate
我一直拒绝与
religious fundamentalists it is my
宗教原教旨主义者辩论 据我
understanding that a cardinal of the
所知，罗马天主教会的红衣主教
Roman Catholic Church is not a
fundamentalist if he is I've made a
如果是原教旨主义者，他就不是原教旨主义者 我犯了一个
mistake L gent very excited to have
错误 L gent 很高兴
these two gentlemen in this evening for
今晚有这两位先生参加
this discussion we know them already but
这次讨论，我们已经认识他们了，但
please for this introduc them properly
请正确地介绍他们，
and make them feel very welcome please
让他们感到非常受欢迎，请
help me welcome the author of The God
帮我欢迎《上帝错觉》的作者，
Delusion The evolutionary biologist he
进化生物学家，他
is of course Richard
当然是理查德·
Dawkins of
道金斯
cityal
cityal
GE 4
GE 4
3
3
George do you accept that humans evolved
乔治你接受人类
from apes yeah probably from the Andals
从猿类进化而来吗是的，可能是从安达尔人进化而来，
yes whether from the
是的，是否从
Andals probably why from the Andals well
安达尔人进化而来，可能为什么是从安达尔人进化而来，还有
who else who else would you
谁，你
suggest the anals were our cousins we're
认为肛门是我们的表亲，我们
not descended from them these extant
不是我们的后裔 他们这些现存的
cousins where will I find a neanderthal
表兄弟，我今天在哪里可以找到尼安德特人，
today if they're my cousins they're not
如果他们是我的表兄弟，他们不是
EX they're extinct exactly that's my
EX，他们已经灭绝了，这正是我的
point your point is that because they're
观点，你的观点是，因为他们
not that because they're extent they
不是那样，因为他们在某种程度上他们
can't be our cousins I really not much
不可能 我们的表兄弟，我真的没什么
fuss that's very clear ignoring the
大惊小怪，这很清楚，忽视
limitations of science also leads to
科学的局限性也会导致
sloppy and arbitrary science a good
草率和武断的科学，一个很好的
example is the field of quantum
例子是量子
mechanics the evidence of logic derives
力学领域，逻辑的证据源自
from the evidence of reality is it
现实的证据，
logical that I can be in two places at
我可以分为两个，这符合逻辑吗？ 立刻就说
once no but if I'm an electron I
不，但如果我是一个电子，我
certainly can be because while you
当然可以，因为当你
referred to Quantum Mechanics I actually
提到量子力学时，我实际上
understand it most evolutionary
理解它，今天大多数进化
biologists today don't believe that
生物学家不相信，
don't believe what they don't believe in
不相信他们不相信的东西，
uh this crude fundamentalist version of
呃，这个粗鲁的原教旨主义者
random selection that you propose I do
你提出的随机选择的版本我
not propose it and um I strongly deny
不建议它，嗯我强烈否认
that that evolution is random
进化是随机
selection this idea that we should
选择这个想法我们应该
challenge our beliefs I agree in some
挑战我们的信念我在某些
areas and this is is the point I tried
方面同意，这就是我试图
to touch upon the difference between
触及两者之间差异的一点
science and religion when only when you
科学和宗教，只有当你
appreciate the difference Can you
意识到差异时，你才能
ascertain whether uh different
确定呃不同的
propositions apply or not anything about
命题是否适用，或者是否适用于
higher truth about morality for example
道德的更高真理，例如，
do you want me to challenge my belief
你是否希望我每天挑战我的信念，即
every day that murder is wrong well if
如果
any of you stopped believing in God I
你们中的任何人不再相信谋杀是错误的，那么谋杀是错误的？ 天哪，我
would ask you would you go out tomorrow
想问你，你明天会出去
and murder your
谋杀你的
neighbor well some of you say yes
邻居吗？你们中的一些人说，是的，
evolution is non random selection
进化是非随机选择，它有
there's there's a purpose to it is there
一个目的，
no could could could you explain what
不可以，你能解释一下
nonrandom means yes of course I could as
非随机意味着什么吗？是的，当然，我可以，因为
my life's work
我的生活 工作
um no idea should be above ridicule
嗯，没有什么想法应该高于嘲笑，
ridicule is a very important tool and
嘲笑是一个非常重要的工具，
why should religion not be subject to
ridicule if politics is subject to
如果政治会受到
ridicule if science if sex if everything
嘲笑，如果科学，如果性，如果
else in in the world is subject to
世界上的其他一切都作为
ridicule as a way of Illuminating
照亮现实的一种方式而受到嘲笑，为什么宗教不应该受到嘲笑？
reality why shouldn't religion it's part
为什么宗教不应该
of Being Human to ask why we EX
成为人类的一部分来问为什么我们要EX
the question why is not necessarily a
这个问题不一定是一个
question that deserves to be answered
值得回答的问题
there are all sorts of questions that
people can ask like what is the color of
人们可以问各种各样的问题，比如嫉妒的颜色是什么，
jealousy that's a silly question exactly
这确实是一个愚蠢的问题
why is a silly question you can ask what
为什么是一个愚蠢的问题，你可以问导致
are the factors that led to something
某些事物
coming into existence that's a sensible
存在的因素是什么，这是一个明智的
question but what is the purpose of the
问题，但宇宙的目的是什么
universe is a silly question it it has
是一个愚蠢的问题，它
no meaning and so I hope that every
没有任何意义，所以我希望每个
student whoever goes to University at
去的学生
one point in their life has the
在他们生命中的某个时刻，大学有
opportunity to have something that is at
机会拥有一些对
the heart of their being something so
他们的
Central to their being that if they lose
存在至关重要的东西，如果他们失去了
it they won't feel they're human anymore
它，他们将不再觉得自己是人类，不会被
to be proved wrong because that's the
证明是错误的，因为那是
Liberation that science provides the
解放 科学让我们
realization that to assume the truth to
认识到，在
assume the answer before you ask the
提出问题之前假设真相、假设答案
questions leads you
nowhere we do have a scientific
不会带来任何结果，我们确实对我们为什么在这里有一个科学的
understanding of why why we're here and
理解，
we therefore have to make up our own
因此我们必须构建自己的
meaning to life we have to stand up look
生命意义，我们必须 站起来，正视
the world in the face face up to the
这个世界，面对这样一个
fact that we are not going to last
事实：我们不会永远持续下去，
forever we have to make the most of the
我们必须充分利用我们
short time that we have on this planet
在这个星球上的短暂时间，
we have to make this planet as good as
我们必须尽可能地让这个星球变得更好，
we possibly can and try to leave it a
试着让它
better place than we found
比我们发现的更好，
it and if we live in a world where
如果我们生活在一个某些
certain things are not subject to
事情不受
question we live in a world where
质疑的世界，我们生活在一个
thinking has
思维已经
stopped
停止的世界，
I think that's an interesting thing this
我认为这是一件有趣的事情，这
one piece will make 52 layers watch on
件作品会让 52 层观看
mobile devices or the big screen all for
移动设备或大屏幕全部
free no subscription
免费，无需订阅
required let's check the final result of
需要让我们看看
tonight's qu vote with more than 20,000
今晚的 qu 投票的最终结果，有超过 20,000 人
of you voting we have a 7 6% saying no
投票，我们有 7 6％ 的人说没有
religious belief does not make the world
宗教信仰并不会让世界成为
a better place please thank our special
一个 更好的地方，请感谢我们的特邀
guest Professor Richard Dawkins Cardinal
嘉宾理查德·道金斯教授红衣主教
George
乔治
[鼓掌]
p
p
hey now little Speedy head read on the
嘿，现在小快速头在
speed metal says you have to go to Tas
速度金属上读到说你必须去塔斯，
in the
在这个
city where people drown and people serve
人们淹死的城市，人们服务
don't be shy you just deserve it's only
不' 别害羞，这是你应得的，这
just well I got thoroughly fed up with
只是很好，我已经彻底厌倦了
BBC type um interviews where you have a
BBC 类型的嗯采访，中间有一位
chairman in the middle and you get an
主席，
interesting conversation going on
between two there might be five people
两个人之间正在进行有趣的对话，可能有五个人
around the table and and a and b are
围坐在桌子旁，然后一个和 b
having an interesting conversation and
正在进行一场有趣的谈话，
so the chairman suddenly says and what
主席突然说，
do you think about this sea totally
你对这片大海完全
breaking the flow spoiling the
破坏了流动，
conversation in all in the interest of
为了
balance and things like that and it
平衡之类的事情而破坏谈话有什么看法，
occurred to me why in Earth do we bother
我突然想到为什么在地球上我们还要烦恼
with chairman they're not
主席，他们当然没有
necessary certainly my recent encounter
必要，我最近
with the Archbishop of Canterbury in the
在牛津的谢尔顿学院与坎特伯雷大主教的会面
sheldonian the in Oxford that was
completely ruined by the chairman who
完全被主席毁了，他
was a philosopher and felt it was his
是一位哲学家，觉得
role to clarify things and of course
澄清事情是他的职责，当然
that meant obscuring
这意味着模糊
things yeah I think it's a I think
是的，我认为这是一个我认为
conversations and conversations that
对话和
aren't planned are fascinating for
没有计划的对话对于
people to watch and listen to
人们观看和聆听来说很有趣是
yes I think it
的我认为它
works
有效
that's what I
这就是我
want
想要的
so we should probably go up okay so if
所以我们应该上去好吗 所以如果
it to fill it up I mean when sometimes
是为了填满它，我的意思是，
sometimes begin late from my experience
根据我的经验，有时有时会晚一些，
if it's really full it begins a little
如果它真的满了，它会
bit late usually three or four minutes
晚一点开始，通常是三到四分钟，
yeah um stilling up
是的，嗯，好吧，
okay Bells so to welcome these two great
钟声，所以欢迎这两位伟大的
scientists to the stage please join me
科学家上台，请加入 我
Richard Dawkins and
理查德·道金斯和
Lauren
劳伦
[音乐][
掌声]
I think it's appropriate to begin did
我认为现在开始是合适的，
any of you see
你们中有人看到
Q&A
问答吗
I was amazed um Cardinal pel who was on
我很惊讶，嗯红衣主教佩尔在
the program manifestly didn't understand
该程序显然不理解
Evolution um actually manifestly didn't
进化论，事实上，
understand anything as far as I could
据我所知，实际上显然不理解任何东西，
really why do you elaborate a little bit
为什么你要详细说明
about that that real problem because I
这个真正的问题，因为我
think it's a fascinating issue of of if
认为这是一个令人着迷的问题，如果
speciation occurs if species change was
物种变化发生的话，是否会发生物种形成。
there a first person at first sight it
乍一看，
seems obvious that there has to have
似乎很明显，必须
been a first person and there has to
有第一个人，必须
have been a first rabbit and a first
有第一只兔子和第一只
rhinoceros and things after all people
犀牛等等，毕竟人
are people aren't they and their
是人，不是吗？他们的
ancestors were not people if you go back
祖先不是人，如果 你回溯得
sufficiently far your ancestor was a
足够远了，你的祖先是一条
fish mustn't there have been a time when
鱼，难道不应该有一个时期，可以这么
so to speak the last Homo erectus
说，最后的直立人
parents gave birth to The first Homo
父母生下了第一个
sapiens baby and the answer is no there
智人婴儿，答案是否定的，从来
never was a first person there never was
没有第一个人，从来没有
a first rabbit or first rhinocerous
第一只兔子或第一只犀牛，
because
因为
every organism ever born belonged to the
每一个诞生的生物体都
same species as its parents and yet
与其父母属于同一物种，但
because it was so gradual because it was
因为它是如此渐进，因为它是
so slow uh Not only was our 200 million
如此缓慢呃，我们的2亿
great grandparent a fish but if you go
曾祖父母不仅是一条鱼，而且如果你
back further still they were worms and
再追溯到更远的地方，它们也是鱼 蠕虫
and uh and so on and one suggestion
和呃等等，有人提出的一个建议
that's been made is that people really
是，人们真的
have difficulty grasping the idea that
很难理解这样一种想法，即
animals turn into other animals so
动物不知不觉地变成了其他动物，
imperceptibly that you can hardly hardly
以至于你几乎无法
notice it it's not actually that
注意到它，实际上并不是那么
paradoxical It All Happened very very
矛盾，这一切都是逐渐发生的，
gradually and you could think of
你 可以想到
parallels like the fact that you can't
类似的事实，例如你
see the hour hand on your watch moving
看不到手表上的时针在移动，
uh at some point we cease to think of
呃，在某些时候，我们不再认为
ourselves as middle-aged and we start to
自己是中年，而是开始
think of ourselves as
认为自己很
old but nobody ever goes to bed middle
老，但没有人在中年睡觉
age and wakes up and says I
年纪大了，醒来后说我
know we had a meeting at my Institute
知道我们在我的研究所开过一次会议，
where we were trying to get at the
我们试图了解
origin of life and it's fascinating to
生命的起源，
learn how much closer we're getting I
了解我们离生命起源有多近很有趣，我
don't know if you think we'll get we'll
不知道你是否认为我们会得到答案 我们将
get to the beginning in your lifetime or
在你的一生或
my Lifetime well it's an exciting
我的一生中开始，这是一个令人兴奋的
thought and and I'm pretty hopeful that
想法，我非常希望
that we might you'll never be able to
我们可能永远无法
prove it for certain I suspect but but
证明这一点，我怀疑，但只能
to come up with a plausible theory that
想出一个合理的想法 理论，
that that people say of course of course
人们说的当然，
that's so elegant and so simple um
这是如此优雅和如此简单，嗯，
either it's true or or it blal ought to
要么是真的，要么是平庸的应该
be true I mean that it could I think
是真的我的意思是，我认为
you've hit the key point it's
你已经击中了关键点，它是
plausibility it it is amazing and
合理的，它是令人惊奇和
fascinating to me and worth celebrating
迷人的 对我来说，值得庆祝的是，
that the laws of physics As We Now
我们现在所理解的物理定律为
understand them have given us a
我们提供了一个看似
plausible story to answer questions
合理的故事，可以回答令人
that's amazing which is how could
惊奇的问题，即
something arise from nothing how could a
事物如何从无中产生，
complex Universe arise from a universe
复杂的宇宙如何从一个没有任何东西、没有粒子的宇宙中产生
in which there was nothing no particles
and maybe not even any space and it's
也许甚至没有任何空间，这对
amazing to me in cosmology now that we
我来说在宇宙学中是令人惊奇的，现在我们
are beginning to get back and realize
开始回过头来并意识到，
that even in something as complex the
即使在如此复杂的事物中，
whole universe could plausibly be
整个宇宙也可能被
created but that's all we ever claim and
创造出来，但这就是我们所声称的，
yet whenever we claim that we were
但每当我们声称我们是
called striding yeah do you notice that
所谓跨步是的，你注意到了吗，是的，
yes I do um it came up in the in the Q&A
我注意到了，嗯，它出现在问答
debate and um I tried to uh very briefly
辩论中，嗯，我试图呃非常简短地
expound Lawrence's thesis that you could
阐述劳伦斯的论点，即你可以
get something from literally nothing the
从几乎没有的东西中得到一些东西，
audience just love laughed I mean it was
观众只是喜欢笑，我的意思是这
obviously to them absurd how could you
显然是为了 它们很荒谬，你怎么
possibly get something from from from
可能从无到有地得到一些东西，
from nothing it does violate common
这确实违反了
sense but as I said earlier this evening
常识，但正如我今晚早些时候所说的，
you can't go by Common Sense if we could
你不能遵循常识，如果我们可以
do things by Common Sense we wouldn't
按照常识做事，我们就
need
不需要
physicists well common sense of course
物理学家良好的常识 当然
comes from what was necessary for our
来自于我们的
brains to
大脑
survive in the P to scene of Africa that
在非洲的场景中生存所必需的，
so they had to survive they had to know
所以他们必须生存，他们必须知道
how to catch a buffalo and how to find a
如何抓住水牛，如何找到
water hole and how to climb a tree when
水坑，以及在被追赶时如何爬树
being pursued by a lion or something so
狮子之类的东西，所以
our brains were never shaped by natural
我们的大脑从来没有被自然
selection to understand either quantum
选择塑造来理解量子
mechanics the theory of the very small
力学（非常小的理论）
or uh relativity the theory of the of
或呃相对论（
the very fast and it's actually as an
非常快的理论），它实际上是
astonishing complement to the human
对人类大脑的惊人补充，
brain that at least some humans are
至少 有些人能够
capable of
understanding no it it is really
理解，不，
remarkable that we've been able to get
我们能够做到这一点确实很了不起，
as far as we can but you hit on another
但你说到了另一
Point our brains didn't not only didn't
点，我们的大脑不仅没有
evolve to understand those aspects of
进化到能够理解宇宙的那些方面，
the universe that it couldn't experience
它无法
directly but another aspect of the
直接体验，但它无法直接体验的宇宙的另一个方面
universe that it can't experience
directly is long time and I think that's
是很长的时间，我认为这是
another reason why evolution is such a
进化论如此
hard concept because we we just see we
困难的另一个原因，因为我们只看到我们
have a slice of 100 years or less we can
有100年或更短的时间 我们可以
do we can do seconds minutes hours days
做，我们可以做，几秒，几分钟，几小时，几天，
years centuries even Millennia we have
几年，几个世纪，甚至几千年，我们都遇到
trouble with I mean you you cannot grasp
麻烦了，我的意思是你，你无法掌握
the immensity of time that is 100
一亿年的时间，非常
million years is
exactly thank you very much thank you
感谢你，非常感谢你，非常
very very
非常
much
很多
[ 音乐]
the walls of been this shade they got a
墙壁是这样的阴影 他们有一个
chest your K all bluring into
箱子，你的K都模糊成
one a lot of people think that just
很多人认为，仅仅
because there's a lot we don't
understand at the edge of science that
在科学的边缘有很多我们不了解的东西，
everything we know is going to go out
我们所知道的一切都是 会飞出
the window and that's not true Evolution
窗外，那不是真的 进化
happened the Big Bang happened if I take
发生了 大爆炸发生了 如果我拿
a ball and drop it it's going to fall
一个球并把它掉下去 它就会掉下来
there are lots of things we do know for
有很多事情我们确实知道 对
me the only solution I can see is to try
我来说 我能看到的唯一解决方案是尝试
and educate people because if you don't
教育人们 因为如果
have an informed public that's the
没有知情的公众，那就是
greatest threat to democracy so it's
对民主的最大威胁，所以
incumbent upon scientists to do a much
科学家有责任做得更好，
better job and then it's up to the
然后由
public to make the decision they can
公众做出决定，他们可以
decide that they don't want to do
决定他们不想做
anything about global warming but they
任何事情 关于全球变暖，但他们
should at least be presented with the
至少应该提供
evidence and understand the
证据并了解这一
fact ladies and gentlemen Dynamic Jo
事实，女士们，先生们，动态乔
sign
标志
before you run away from me before you
在你逃离我之前，在你
lost between the no the big
迷失在没有大
[音乐]之间之前 能
go it's such a privilege to be alive in
生活在
the 21st century and to look out at the
21 世纪，仰望
stars to look down a microscope to look
星空，俯视显微镜，
down an electron microscope to look into
俯视电子显微镜，观察
a single cell and see the prodigious
单个细胞，看到
Stupify complexity of a single cell and
单个细胞惊人的复杂性，
then realize that there are trillions of
然后意识到，这是一种荣幸。
those cells in your body all conspiring
你体内数以万亿计的细胞
together to produce a working machine
齐心协力生产出一台
which can walk and and run and eat and
可以行走、跑步、
have sex and think what a privilege it
吃饭、做爱的工作机器，想想
is for each one of us to have in our
我们每个人的大脑中拥有一个
heads an organ which is capable of
能够执行任务的器官是多么荣幸
constructing a model of the universe it
构建一个宇宙模型，
is sad that that model will die when our
令人遗憾的是，当我们的大脑死亡时，该模型也会死亡，
brain dies but my goodness what a
但天哪，在
privilege it is before we do
我们死亡之前这是多么荣幸，
die place so there is nothing to explain
所以没有什么可以解释
you are each other as you pass she lookl
你们是彼此，当你经过时，她看着
you not
你，
just not just
不仅仅是不 只是
T wish you in
祝愿你在
night wish you night you got
晚上祝你晚上得到
it welcome back everybody my guest
欢迎大家回来我的客人
tonight please welcome Lawrence CR hey
今晚请欢迎劳伦斯 CR 嘿
Dr CR thank you so much for coming
CR 博士非常感谢你的到来
on all right
好吧
sir why does your but why does what
先生为什么你的但为什么
you're saying have to be an attack on my
你所说的有 攻击我的
God it doesn't have to be an attack but
上帝，不一定是攻击，但这
that's all you've done you've attacked
就是你所做的一切，你
my my God for the last minutes no no no
在最后几分钟攻击了我的上帝，不，不，
you have all I've said is you don't need
你有我所说的一切，你不需要
him that's an
他这是一种
attack we've changed our minds about the
攻击，我们已经改变了对宇宙的看法，
universe we've learned that the universe
我们已经了解到，宇宙
is more remarkable than anything we ever
比我们以前想象的任何东西都更加非凡，
thought before and and and and in fact
事实上，
changing your mind and in fact being
改变你的想法，事实上，
wrong is wonderful you should try it
犯错是很棒的，你应该找个
sometime it's really amazing it it means
时间尝试一下。 这真的很神奇，这意味着，这
that it it it means
意味着，
that let me ask something if there is no
让我问一件事，如果没有
God okay if there is no thing called God
上帝，好吧，如果没有所谓上帝的东西，
if he is nothing can't something come
如果他什么都不是，就不能从
from
him lawence thank you so
他劳伦斯那里来，非常感谢你，
much it I'm back you can feel it I
我 我回来了，你能感觉到我
back
回来了
this this makes my day Miley Cyrus has
这让我很高兴麦莉赛勒斯在
tweeted a picture of me with the qu
推特上发了一张我和曲的照片
along with my quote about stars the one
以及我对明星的引用，
where I say uh so forget Jesus stars
我说呃所以 忘记耶稣明星
died so you could be born and underneath
死了，所以你可以出生，她在下面
she put the word beautiful and she seems
写了“美丽”这个词，她似乎
to have gotten a lot of hate mail for
收到了很多仇恨邮件，
that I actually think they don't
我实际上认为他们也不
understand this too because you know
明白这一点，因为你知道
they think she's saying the quote is
他们认为她说这句话很
beautiful but clearly what she's saying
美丽 但很明显她说的
is the the picture of me is
是我的照片
beautiful I think we're both
很美我想我们都
agree that what people want to do is
同意人们想要做的是
they want to believe to take a line from
他们想要相信从xfiles中获取一句台词
the xfiles uh um they it they want to
呃嗯他们他们想要
believe in believing and so most people
相信 相信，所以大多数
who have faith I think in our society
有信仰的人，我认为在我们的社会中，
naturally pick and choose from the
自然会从教义中挑选
doctrine those things they find
那些他们认为
absolutely ridiculous and throw out yeah
绝对荒谬的东西，然后扔掉，是的，
and you know and the pope would say
你知道，教皇会说
that's not palatable and I I would tend
这不可接受，我倾向于
to agree with the Pope I think if you
同意教皇的观点 我想如果你
can't believe some of the stuff and you
不能相信其中的一些东西，你
need to throw it out just forget the
需要把它扔掉，就忘记
whole thing
整件事
yeah that would be that would be my view
是的，这就是我的观点，
and I suspect that um well there are
我怀疑嗯，好吧，
what 535 members of the US Congress and
美国有 535 名成员 国会和
one has said that he doesn't believe in
一个人说他不相信有
a Supreme Being uh that's statistically
一个至高无上的存在，呃，这在统计上是
not possible
不可能的，
um I mean a fair number of those members
嗯，我的意思是，相当多的
of Congress presumably have had some
国会议员大概接受过某种
sort of
Education they have got to be a very
教育，他们必须是相当
substantial number of of of atheistic
多的人 我的猜测，
members of the United States Congress
美国国会的无神论议员
probably more than a couple of hundred
可能超过几百人，
would be my my guess and yet they cannot
但他们不能
admit it um so in in order to get
承认这一点，所以为了
elected you have got to lie about your
当选，你必须对你的
about your beliefs and I I think I think
信仰撒谎，我认为我认为
that's right and I think it's good to
这是对的 我认为
call them on in one sense I disagree
从某种意义上来说，呼吁他们是件好事 我有点不同意
with you slightly maybe because I I I
你的观点，也许是因为我
spend a lot of more time in this country
在这个国家待了很多时间，
I would say um if if if people don't
我会说，如果人们不把
hold the religion on their sleeve then
宗教放在心上，
it's not relevant to them then then it's
那就无关紧要 对他们来说，那么它
not relevant then it's not in the public
就不相关，那么它不属于公共
domain and journalists need and ask
领域，记者需要并提出
questions about it but if they do hold
有关它的问题，但如果他们确实将
the religion on their sleeve then it
宗教放在袖子上，那么它就
becomes in the public domain and it
属于公共领域，
becomes appropriate for journalists to
记者提出它就变得合适了，
bring it up so because then it's an
所以 因为那时
action they're saying elect me because
他们说选举我是一个行动，因为
I'm a person of Faith but but I'm I'm
我是一个有信仰的人，但我
really coming back to the to the Nu of
真的回到了
the question which is that even if it
问题的核心，那就是即使
they don't take any action based upon it
他们不采取任何行动 基于它的行动
um I mean I'm an extreme example which
嗯我的意思是我是一个极端的例子，
which I actually published in a on a
我实际上在某个地方的博客上发表了一个
Blog somewhere was a hypothetical Doctor
假设的神秘博士
Who uh doesn't believe in the the sex
呃不相信
theory of reproduction believes in the
生殖的性别理论相信
stalk theory of of of reproduction I I
生殖的茎理论 我
thought I was pushing to the Limit I
以为我已经达到了极限 我
assume that everybody would agree with
想每个人都会同意
me at least here that you would not wish
我的观点，至少在这里你不想
to consult such a doctor not a bit of it
咨询这样的医生，一点也不，
I was kicked around the room the
我在房间里被踢了
doctor's private beliefs or his private
医生的私人信仰或他的私人
beliefs then no business of yours so
信仰然后没有 这是你的事，
long as he can take your appendix out
只要他能把你的阑尾切除掉，
whatever he has to do then it doesn't
无论他必须做什么，那么
matter that he doesn't believe in sex he
他不相信他所相信的性理论并不重要，
believes in in in the St theory that
that's where we're disagreeing because
这就是我们不同意的地方，因为
well I guess it it because but the stalk
我想 这是因为，但茎
theory is relevant to his career as a
理论与他作为一名医生的职业生涯有关，
doctor i' have to say make him an eye
我不得不说让他成为一名
doctor then no yeah but I'd have to say
眼科医生，然后不，是的，但我不得不说，
for a politician if you know there I
如果你知道那里的政治家，我
think I I I think there are rights to
想我我认为有权利
privacy I don't I mean I think if
隐私 我不是，我的意思是，我认为如果
someone believes that it's okay for them
有人认为他们可以
to have sex with animals I shouldn't ask
与动物发生性关系，我就不应该问
that question as long as they don't make
这个问题，只要他们不把它作为
it a campaign platform and and and and
一个竞选平台，
and so I happen to think that there is
所以我碰巧 认为存在
some some right to privacy in the sense
一些隐私权，因为
that that that if you don't wear it on
如果你不把它戴在
your sleeve and these candidates do wear
袖子上，而这些候选人确实把
it on the sleeve including by the way
它戴在袖子上，包括
Obama and I think once you bring that up
奥巴马，我认为一旦你提出这个问题，
then it becomes then it becomes fair
那么它就变成了 那么现在就变成公平
game now let let's end with because you
游戏了，让我们结束吧，因为你
pointed out that there's one member of
指出有一位
Congress and I didn't know there were
国会议员，而我不知道有
that many um who who argues that he
那么多嗯谁认为他
doesn't believe in a Supreme Being uh
不相信至高无上的存在呃
I just wrote an article that about of a
我刚刚写了一篇文章
study that's been done by a group of
psychologists in in um in Canada and the
加拿大和美国的一组心理学家
United States it's just been
刚刚
published that says that asks what who
发表了一项研究，该研究询问
what groups people
人们
distrust and um it turns out the group
不信任哪些群体，结果发现
that is distrusted the most are atheists
最不信任的群体是无神论者
well they're not quite the most they're
好吧，他们并不是最能
on par with
与
rapists and I wonder if you could
强奸犯相提并论的，我想知道你是否可以
comment well that that that seems to me
很好地评论说，在我看来，这
to be an adequate explanation for why uh
足以解释为什么呃，这么
so many members of the United States
多美国
Congress are obviously lying about their
国会议员明显在他们的问题上撒谎。
about their private beliefs I mean if
关于他们的私人信仰 我的意思是，如果
you're on a par with
你与强奸犯处于同等地位，
rapists um it it I mean I I I suspect
嗯，我的意思是我我怀疑我们
that that we've already had in this
这个
country quite a number of atheist
国家已经有相当多的无神论
presidents I supect it wouldn't surprise
总统，我想这不会让我感到惊讶，
me in the least if Kennedy was an
如果 肯尼迪是
atheist it wouldn't surprise me if
无神论者，如果克林顿是无神论者，我不会感到惊讶，
Clinton was an atheist it wouldn't
surprise me if Obama's an atheist um but
如果奥巴马是无神论者，我也不会感到惊讶，嗯，但
you cannot admit it or you you simply
你不能承认这一点，或者你根本
don't get elected um I would like to
就不会当选，嗯，我想
start a campaign for what do they called
开始一场竞选活动 他们是否称
lame duck um uh presidents and senators
跛脚鸭嗯总统、参议员
and people to say okay I'm not going I'm
和人们说好吧我不去我
not standing for election any anymore
不再参加选举
I'm an atheist I've been an Atheist all
我是无神论者我一直都是无神论者
along
um
嗯
yes yes that's right um that's
是的，没错，嗯，那是
EAS Darren waiting for you Hi how
EAS Darren 在等你，嗨，
you he said it's never been so hard
他说，从来没有这么难，
never been so
从来没有这么
chall
难，
see
看看
vide okay we're we're we're heading out
视频，好吧，我们在，我们要去
eh another building y all right we're
另一座大楼，好吧，我们在
set up what do you know it looks like a
设置你知道吗，这看起来像是一个
real place to interview and you and so
真实的采访场所和你，所以
these mics work I don't have to I don't
这些麦克风可以工作，我不需要我
have to wear one that's
不需要戴一个
in
well Lawrence Krauss welcome to OnePlus
很好的劳伦斯克劳斯欢迎来到一加
One it's great to be here uh Albert
一很高兴来到这里呃 阿尔伯特·
Einstein was once quoted as saying if
爱因斯坦曾经被引述说，如果
you can't explain it to a six-year-old
你不能向一个六岁的孩子解释它，
you don't understand it yourself your
你自己就不明白它，你的
latest book a universe from nothing
最新著作《从无到有的宇宙》
deals with some fairly weighty topics
涉及一些相当重要的话题，
how would you explain it to a
你如何向一个
six-year-old that the Universe came from
六岁的孩子解释它—— 岁那年宇宙从无到有
nothing oh
哦
well I see what you mean but it's very
好吧我明白你的意思但这很不
unjust um I mean telling children
公平嗯我的意思是告诉孩子们
they're going to hell is surely by any
他们会下地狱无论以任何标准来看都是肯定的
standards Wicked I mean that's just evil
邪恶我的意思是这只是邪恶
but um I am not doing anything remotely
但是嗯我并没有远程做任何事情
comparable to that what I'm doing is
与此类似，我正在做的是
telling children think for yourself look
告诉孩子们自己思考，
for the evidence um I'm not saying this
寻找证据，嗯，我并不是说事情就是这样，
is the way it is you better believe it
你最好相信它，
or else well I I you know it's funny
否则好吧，我我你知道这很有趣，
because six-year-olds are a lot less
因为六岁的孩子是一个 与
biased than than than adults often and
成年人相比，偏见要少得多，而且
the neat thing is I TR tell them that
巧妙的是，我告诉他们，
nothing is not exactly what they thought
没有什么东西不完全是他们想象的那样，这有点
it was it was a little bit different
不同，
that the laws of physics tell you that
物理定律告诉你，
even empty space is much more
即使是真空也
interesting than you thought empty space
比你有趣得多 认为空旷的空间
is a boiling bubbling Brew of stuff
是一种沸腾的、冒泡的物质，
that's popping in and out of existence
every second and what's more amazing is
每秒都会突然出现和消失，更令人惊奇的是，
that we've learned that if you take just
我们已经了解到，如果你只需要
a bit of space and get rid of all the
一点空间并摆脱所有的
particles and all the radiation and
粒子和所有的辐射，
everything that it still weighs
一切仍然很重，
something and we don't understand why
我们不明白为什么
Lawrence crra thanks for joining us on
劳伦斯克拉感谢您加入我们的
1pl one thank you very much it's been a
1pl 非常感谢您，这是一种
pleasure excellent wonderful okay thank
愉快，非常好，好的，非常感谢
you very much thanks a lot thanks a lot
您，非常感谢，非常感谢，非常
it was nice doing it there's a
高兴，有一个
DOT what a disgusting idea I mean the
点，这是一个多么恶心的想法，我的意思是，
idea that the only way to forgive
原谅某人的唯一方法
somebody is to have a scapegoat to have
就是找一个替罪羊，让
your own son tortured and killed because
你自己的儿子遭受酷刑和杀害，因为
there's no other way to forgive the the
没有其他方法可以原谅这个
the idea that there can be no
想法，如果
forgiveness without without Bloodshed
没有流血，就不可能得到宽恕。
without um punishment is a is is an
嗯，惩罚是一个
ancient idea and it's a horrible one in
古老的想法，在原罪教义的特殊情况下，这是一个可怕的想法，
the particular case of of the the
doctrine of original sin the original
sin is supposed to been committed by
原罪应该是由亚当犯下的，
Adam who as we now know never existed so
据我们现在所知，亚当从未存在过，所以
we now have the Preposterous idea that
我们现在有了荒谬的想法
Jesus was sacrificed um the the
耶稣被牺牲了，
scapegoat was sacrificed for the sin of
替罪羊被牺牲了，因为
a non-existent
一个不存在的
forbearer
先行者的罪孽，
okay accident Westbank Avenue we've got
好吧，事故，西岸大道，我们有
War pen Road no major problems for the
战争笔路，没有大问题，
nor that's that's the fellow finally
也不是那个家伙，最后，
that the end was having a phone call yes
最后有一个电话是的
yeah Jen how are you hi good I'm glad
是的，Jen，你好吗，嗨，我很高兴
there's actually there's someone here to
实际上有人在这里
actually do this agenda 26
实际做这个议程，26
to8 over there Lawrence you go it's good
点到 8 点，劳伦斯，你走吧，很高兴再次
to see you again it is 26 to8 on 702
见到你，时间是 26 点到 8 点，702 号
Lawrence Krauss is our guest his latest
劳伦斯·克劳斯是我们的客人，他的最新
book is called a universe from nothing
书叫做 一个从无到有的宇宙，
you say the universe continues to get
你说，宇宙继续变得越来越
weirder are there moments when we make
奇怪，是否有一些时刻，当我们取得
breakthroughs and things suddenly make a
突破时，事情突然
fair bit more sense for you cuz you some
对你来说变得更有意义，因为你
of the stuff you do really upsets some
所做的一些事情确实让一些人感到不安，
people and and and really inspires other
并且确实激励了其他
people to back their own beliefs would
人 回到他们自己的信仰，
you prefer that it was just an esoteric
你是否愿意这只是一个深奥的
academic disc no I think no it's not
学术光盘不，我认为不，这并不
esoteric these are wonderful things
深奥，这些都是很棒的事情，
everyone should be talking about them
每个人都应该谈论它们，
it's it's some of the most beautiful
这是人类曾经做出的一些最美丽的
ideas and discoveries that humans have
想法和发现，
ever made and if it upsets people how
如果它 让人们心烦意乱的是，
can learning about how the universe
了解宇宙的
really works upset people and it is a
真正运作方式怎么能让人们心烦意乱，令人遗憾的是，它确实让
shame that it does we instead of being
我们感到
threatened or having our faith
不安，而不是让我们的信仰
threatened by the discoveries of science
受到科学发现的威胁，
we should realize that you know if that
我们应该意识到，你知道
we should force our beliefs to conform
我们是否应该强迫我们的信仰去改变。
to the evidence of reality rather than
符合现实的证据，而不是
the other way around and we should take
相反，我们应该感到
joy in the fact that we are actually
高兴的是，我们实际上
here in this random moment able to even
在这个随机的时刻，甚至能够
ask those questions and get close enough
提出这些问题并足够接近
to the answers we don't have the
我们没有
Ultimate answers I don't claim in the
最终答案的答案 我并没有在书中声称
book that I I have the Ultimate answers
我拥有最终的答案，
I talk about what's plausible and the
我谈论的是似乎合理的事情，以及
fact that we're learning we're we're
我们正在了解我们
getting closer and closer to these to
越来越接近这些最终问题的事实，
even potentially answering these
甚至有可能回答这些
ultimate questions is something we
最终问题，这是我们
should all celebrate people shouldn't be
应该做的事情 所有人都庆祝人们不应该受到
threatened by
science um no I think that's that's fine
科学的威胁，嗯，不，我认为那很好，非常
thank you very much well it's been nice
感谢你，很好，很高兴与
talking to you all right
你交谈，
bye-bye lawence CR as always a pleasure
再见，劳伦斯 CR，一如既往，很高兴
to speak with you same here
与你交谈，同样在这里，通过
thanks through our faith you remain
我们的信仰感谢你 保持
United and you continue to watch over us
团结，你们继续看护我们
and
和
us this is the nicest thing I've seen in
我们，这是我最近在任何图书馆看到的最好的事情，
any Library recently no they're
不，他们
not okay can I do
不好，我可以
that but there's poo that is that poo
这样做吗，但是那边有便便，
over there
got
让
Professor Dawkins what do you see or
道金斯教授得到了什么 你看到或者
rather hope for the future of Atheism in
更确切地说希望无神论在
the public sphere
公共领域的未来吗
my My Hope for the future of atheism is
我对无神论未来的希望是
that it will no longer be necessary um
它不再是必要的嗯
we don't we don't call ourselves aorists
我们没有我们不称自己为不定论者
and aists and and
和无神论者以及
a lepre cornist because it's not
麻风病主义者 因为这是没有
necessary and my hope is that the day
必要的，我希望有一天人们会
will come when it simply is taken for
理所当然地
granted that everybody doesn't believe
认为每个人不再
in Yahweh anymore than they believe in
相信耶和华，就像他们不再相信
Thor and
托尔和
Jupiter I think there's some
木星一样，我认为有一些
indication that the religious Lobby is
迹象表明宗教游说团体正
getting increasingly desperate and is
变得越来越绝望， 正在
increasing the Venom and the vitriol uh
增加他们反击的毒液和
with which they fight back and I think
尖酸刻薄，我想
what we may be seeing is the beginning
我们可能会看到的是
of the death throws and when you see a a
死亡投掷的开始，当你看到一只
wounded animal in its death throws it
受伤的动物在死亡投掷中时，它
tends to lash
往往会猛烈攻击
out
gentl can you be quiet for one second
你能安静一秒钟吗？
nice to see all youing young gentlemen
很高兴看到所有年轻的绅士
here to protest for your relig but like
在这里抗议你的宗教，但就像
I've been asking where are all of your
我一直在问你们所有的女人都在哪里
[鼓掌][
women
鼓掌]
house
house
follow me don't follow me I've got my
跟着我 别跟着我 我有我的
spine I've got my orange cross me don't
脊椎 我有我的橙色十字架 我别给
color me I've gotten my spine I've got
我上色 我有我的脊椎 我有
my orange crust are agents of the fre
我的橙色外壳 是我的自由的代理人 玩
I've had my fun and now it's time to
得很开心，现在是时候为
serve your conscience overse
你的良心服务了，
coming in fast over
me I think this is a demonstration of
我认为这证明了
what a secular society is supposed to be
世俗社会应该是什么样子，它
it's not one that excludes religious
不是一个排除宗教
people it's one that is inclusive from
人士的社会，而是一个包容
all points of
各方的社会
view
认为
it's definitely exciting it's it's
这绝对令人兴奋，这
definitely exciting and it re enthuses
绝对令人兴奋，它会重新激励
you to go out and and do your thing and
你走出去，做你的事情，
stick to your guns we've made so many
坚持你的立场，我们在这里结交了这么多
Amazing Friends fantastic people
了不起的朋友，很棒的人
[音乐]哦，
here oh I've talked to all sorts of
我' 和各种各样的
people sit down to someone you get up a
人交谈过 坐下来和某个人
conversation without any trouble they're
交谈 你不会遇到任何麻烦 他们是
the friendliest light you'd ever
你见过的最友好的光
bee I've had my fun and now it's time to
我玩得很开心，现在是时候让
your conscience
你的良心在
overseas coming in fast over
海外快速冲过
me there is a similarity my friend
我了 我的朋友
Richard Dawkins who's here was kind
理查德·道金斯（Richard Dawkins）很友善地
enough to write the afterward for that
为这本书写了后面的内容，
book and he made a wonderful comparison
他做了一个精彩的比较，
which was that there's some similarity
那就是在
before Darwin life was a miracle you
达尔文的生命成为一个奇迹之前，有一些相似之处，你
couldn't ask the question where did the
不能问这个问题：
diversity of Life came from it was a
生命的多样性在哪里 它的诞生是一个
miracle it was designed what Darwin
奇迹，它的设计是达尔文所
showed were very simple laws of biology
展示的非常简单的生物学
natural selection and genetic mutation
自然选择定律和基因突变
essentially could produce all the
本质上可以产生
diversity on life of Life the complexity
生命的所有多样性，
we now see from very simple Beginnings
我们现在从非常简单的开始看到生命的复杂性，
with no Miracle now at the time he did
现在他当时没有奇迹。
it did he prove it no but it was
他证明了吗？没有，但这是
plausible now there's been 150 years of
合理的，现在已经有150年的
proof now we take it the next step do we
证据了，现在我们采取下一步，我们
know how the first forms of life started
知道第一个生命形式是如何开始的吗？
absolutely not but it's certainly
绝对不，但
plausible that given everything we know
考虑到我们
about genetics biochemistry that
对遗传学和生物化学的了解，这肯定是合理的
Chemistry by natural process is Con turn
自然过程中的化学会转化
into biology do we know that no but it's
为生物学，我们知道吗？不，但它是
plausible and that's worth celebrating
合理的，值得庆祝的是，
that you don't need Miracles and it's
你不需要奇迹，对于
the same is true for the universe we've
我们
we've taken from biology to that
从生物学到这个
fundamental question which was the last
基本问题的宇宙来说也是如此。 这是
Bastion for many people of God why is
上帝许多人的最后堡垒，为什么
there something rather than nothing and
有东西而不是没有，并
said you don't need
说
them if this is the case and our
如果是这种情况，你就不需要它们，而我们的
universe just popped into existence and
宇宙刚刚突然出现，
space and time were created in our
空间和时间在我们的宇宙中被创造出来的那
universe at the moment it came into
一刻
existence along with the laws of physics
随着我们测量的物理定律一起存在，
we measure then there's an object if you
那么有一个物体，如果你
want to call it that that is greater
想称它比
than our universe we call it in physics
我们的宇宙更大，我们在物理学中将它称为
now the Multiverse in which case there
多重宇宙，在这种情况下，
are many possible universes Phil from a
从哲学角度来看，有许多可能的宇宙菲尔
philosophical perspective people have a
problem with the universe that had
对已经开始的宇宙有一个问题，
beginning that's why they invented God
这就是为什么他们发明了上帝，
because they want something Eternal with
因为他们想要永恒的东西，
no cause first cause prime mover you
没有原因，第一原因，原动力，你
pick your philosophy or theology the
选择你的哲学或神学，
point I want to point out is that the
我想指出的一点是，
Multiverse now serves the role of the
多元宇宙现在扮演着原初的角色
prime mover from a philosophical
从哲学的
perspective it could it can be Eternal
角度来看，它可能是永恒的，
it could be Eternal and certainly beyond
它可能是永恒的，而且肯定超出了
our universe but the thing I also want
我们的宇宙，但我也想
to point out cuz I've debated with
指出这一点，因为我
Christian apologists often and they say
经常与基督教辩护者辩论，他们说
well you invented the Multiverse because
你发明了多元宇宙，因为
you don't like
你不这样做 我不太喜欢
God well it's true I don't like God but
上帝，这是真的，我不喜欢上帝，但
the Multiverse was proposed because the
多重宇宙的提出是因为
laws of physics are driving us to us I
物理定律正在驱使我们走向我们，我什至
don't even like the Multiverse but if
不喜欢多重宇宙，但如果
nature tells me that's the case and the
大自然告诉我情况就是这样，而
laws of physics are accidental I got to
物理定律是偶然的 我必须
live with it so to
忍受它，所以得出
conclude I've told you today the
结论，我今天告诉你，
universe can come from nothing more
宇宙可以从无到有，更
importantly I've told you that you are
重要的是，我告诉你，你
far more insignificant than you ever
比你
thought and that's what I want you to
想象的要微不足道得多，这就是我今天希望你
celebrate here
在这里庆祝的，
today but instead of taking and people
但相反 人们
say science takes away spiritual
说科学带走了精神上的
fulfillment and wonder and awe and
满足、惊奇、敬畏和
happiness you should be happier because
幸福，你应该更快乐，因为
you're insignificant and the future is
你是微不足道的，未来是
miserable CU you're here today and
悲惨的。你今天在这里，
you're endowed by Evolution with a
进化赋予你
Consciousness and intelligence and you
意识和智慧，你
can ask these questions so instead of
可以问这些问题，这样你就不会感到
being depressed and requiring meaning in
沮丧，也不会在宇宙中寻求
the universe beyond own existence you
超越自己存在的意义，而是
create your own meaning and enjoy your
创造自己的意义，享受
brief moment in the sun thank you very
在阳光下短暂的时刻，非常感谢
[掌声]，
much but the problem is that most people
但问题是大多数人
most of the time are desperate to
大多数时候都是 由于明显的情感原因，他们不顾一切地
believe ridiculous and divisive ideas
相信荒谬和分裂的想法，
for for patently emotional reasons and
and while rarely explicit what they're
虽然很少明确他们
really worried about is death and when
真正担心的是死亡，但当
we're arguing about teaching
我们争论
evolution in the schools I would argue
在学校教授进化论时，我会争辩说，
that we are really arguing about death
我们似乎真的在争论死亡
it seems to me the only reason why any
对我来说，任何
religious person cares about evolution
宗教人士关心进化论的唯一原因
is because if their holy books are wrong
是，如果他们的圣书
about our Origins they are very likely
关于我们的起源的说法是错误的，那么他们很可能
wrong about our destiny after
对我们
death ex-muslims like me in Europe and
在欧洲和北美像我这样的前穆斯林死后的命运也是错误的
in North America are growing in number
人数不断增加
we give speeches we publish articles and
我们发表演讲 我们发表文章和
books and we communicate with one
书籍 我们互相交流
another Infidel was the epithet an
异教徒是
insult that was thrown at me over and
over again by family and former Muslim
家人和以前的穆斯林
friends it is a label that I now wear
朋友一次又一次对我提出的侮辱性绰号，这是我现在自豪地佩戴的一个标签
with pride and
joy we in a brand new age for religions
快乐，我们在一个全新的宗教时代，
for Millennia religions did not have to
几千年的宗教不必
worry about the the flock acquiring lots
担心羊群获得
of information about other religions or
大量有关其他宗教或
about their own religion these
他们自己宗教的信息，这些
religions evolved culturally in a world
宗教在一个容易保持无知的世界中在文化上进化，
of easy to maintain ignorance but the
但
new transparency of information brought
about by technology by cell phones by
技术、手机、
the internet and all the rest is the
互联网等带来的新的信息透明度是
first really drastic change in the
epistemological environment that
religions have had to face in several
宗教几千年来不得不面对的认识论环境中的第一个真正巨大的变化，
Millennia thanks for your
感谢您
attention
to many he's more than an evolutionary
对许多人的关注，他不仅仅是一位进化
biologist he's a champion of science and
生物学家，他是 科学和
reason who's convinced many around the
理性的拥护者，他让世界各地的许多人相信，
world that it's more than okay to come
out as an atheist please welcome to the
作为无神论者出柜是完全可以的。请欢迎来到舞台上，
stage our final speaker of day two of
the global atheist convention Richard
全球无神论者大会第二天的最后一位发言人理查德
（掌声）
dorkin I want to take back intelligent
多尔金，我想收回聪明的观点
design I want to take back other
设计 我想收回其他
hijacked words just as the feminists
被劫持的词，就像女权主义者
have rallied around the phrase take back
聚集在“夺回黑夜”这句话周围一样，
the night maybe we should take back
也许我们应该收回
intelligent design in the true sense of
真正意义上的智能设计，
the word let's take back morality let's
让我们收回道德，让我们
redesign our morality rather than trying
重新设计我们的道德，而不是试图
to read what's right and wrong in a
阅读什么 一本
3,000 year old book religion has
3000年前的书中的对与错宗教已经
hijacked realityy for centuries let's
劫持了现实几个世纪让我们把它带
take it back and intelligently design it
回来并明智地设计它
let's intelligently design Our Lives
让我们明智地设计我们的生活
rather than be dictated to by priests
而不是被牧师
and mullers let's intelligently design
和穆勒所支配让我们
our future using the gift of foresight
利用远见的天赋来明智地设计我们的未来
something that never existed before
brains and for practical purposes that
means human brains
evolved the ability to design is one of
设计能力是
the crowning glories of our species
我们人类至高无上的荣耀之一，
Bridges planes buildings all sorts of
桥梁、飞机、建筑、各种
ingenious Contraptions the essence of
巧妙的装置，
design in this true sense of the word is
真正意义上的设计本质是
deliberate foresight human designers can
人类设计师深思熟虑的远见。
look into the future and see the
展望未来，看到
possible mistakes see the possible
可能的错误，看到可能的
pitfalls try things out in
陷阱，在想象中进行尝试，
imagination above all look into the
首先是展望
future which is something natural
未来，这是自然
selection cannot do this is one of the
选择无法做到的，这是对
major misunderstandings of evolution
进化论的主要误解之一，
people are so used to the idea that
人们已经习惯了
natural selection produces apparently
自然选择的想法 产生了明显
good design that they think that natural
良好的设计，他们认为自然
selection must be capable of peering
选择必须能够预见
into the future of taking steps to stop
未来，采取措施阻止
the species going extinct for
物种灭绝，
example never happens it cannot happen
例如，永远不会发生，它不会发生，
nature cannot plan for the future the
大自然无法规划未来，
human brain can we can look at Trends in
人类的大脑我们可以看看趋势
the present and extrapolate into the
现在并推断
future we can foresee possible scenarios
未来，我们可以预见可能
that might lead to our species going
导致我们物种
extinct and take steps to avoid it thank
灭绝的可能情况，并采取措施避免它，非常感谢
you very
[鼓掌]，
much how many people do you have to kill
你需要杀死多少人才能
to be a murderer just one just one how
成为凶手，只是一个而已
many lies you have to tell to be a lie
你必须说很多谎言才算是谎言，
just
只是
one how many people kill the
一个，有多少人杀了
Bible says you shall not take the name
圣经说，你不能
of the Lord your God in vain what I find
妄称主你上帝的名，我觉得
humorous what I find humorous is you
幽默的是，我觉得幽默的是你
don't M down the street cursing the name
不会在街上咒骂
of Allah or Muhammad but Jesus is in
安拉或穆罕默德的名字，但耶稣出现在
every one of your conversations you know
你的每一次谈话中，你知道
you have a conscience means with science
你有良心，科学
means knowledge when you take the name
意味着知识，当你
of My Savior Jesus Christ in vain you do
徒劳地称呼我救主耶稣基督的名字时，你是用
it with an inherent knowledge and in
固有的知识来做的，并且
should acknowledge that it is wrong that
应该承认 这是错误的，
it is born out of your sinful heart
它是从你的罪恶之心中诞生的，
what we're saying is you're not just
我们所说的是，你不仅仅是
atheists you're liar you're not
无神论者，你是骗子，你不是
atheist
无神论者
I guess the the best part of
我想沟通的最好部分
communicating is is the excitement
science turns us on science is fun
科学让我们兴奋，科学很有趣，
science excites us you can't communicate
科学让我们兴奋，
unless you're excited but on the other
除非你兴奋，否则你无法交流，但
hand that's I feel it's so fascinating
另一方面，我觉得它对我来说是如此着迷，
for me that I want to tell people about
我想告诉人们这
it Carl Sean said when you're in love
件事，卡尔·肖恩（Carl Sean）说，当你 恋爱了，
you want to tell the world and say that
你想告诉世界，说
I'm in love with science and I have to
我爱上了科学，我必须
tell the
告诉世界，
world
but we mustn't run away with the idea
但我们不能逃避
that science is just fun science is is
科学只是有趣的想法，科学是
hard yeah and so it's not fun in the
很难的，是的，所以它是 不是很有趣，
sense that it's just sort of easy and
因为它只是有点简单，
and and you can ler around doing it it
而且你可以忍受这样做，这很
is hard but it's worth
困难，但它是值得的
it
它
音乐][
[音乐 ]
something I didn't know I don't know if
我不知道的事情我不知道
you knew that the Royal Society has a
你是否知道皇家学会有一位
patron saint St Andrew is a patron saint
守护神圣安德鲁是守护神
St Andrew yeah I mean why not doubting
圣安德鲁是的我的意思是为什么不怀疑
Thomas he' be he'd be the proper Patron
托马斯他是他合适的
s that would be perfect doubting Thomas
守护神 完全怀疑托马斯，
because that's what it's all
因为这对我来说就是这一切，
about for me this is the legacy of
这是
modern civilization this what it's all
现代文明的遗产，这就是它的全部，
about and this is the Legacy that's
worth preserving and and and sharing
值得保存和
more broadly and it's under attack yes I
更广泛分享的遗产，它正在受到攻击，是的，我的
mean I see the history of science modern
意思是我看到了历史 现代
science as being weaning off the wisdom
科学正在摆脱
of old books and onto the wisdom of
旧书本的智慧，转向
observation and experiment there's a
观察和实验的智慧，有一个
lovely story about um Galileo being
可爱的故事，关于伽利略被
visited by somebody and Galileo showed
某人拜访，伽利略
this person something through his
通过他的望远镜向这个人展示了一些东西，
telescope and it contradicted what what
这与
he thought before and eventually he said
他之前的想法相矛盾， 最后他说
Mr Galileo your demonstration is so
伽利略先生你的演示是如此
convincing that were it not that
令人信服，如果不是
Aristotle positively States the contrary
亚里士多德积极地陈述相反的话
I would believe you it was actually
我会相信你它实际上是
looking through a
通过
telescope
望远镜观察
it's surprising in some sense that we're
从某种意义上说令人惊讶的是我们被
talked about as being arrogant for
谈论为傲慢
somehow saying we create our own
说我们创造了自己的
importance that that that our knowledge
重要性，我们的知识
and our understanding and the way we
、我们的理解以及我们的生活方式使我们变得重要，
live our lives is what makes our
importance people don't seem to
人们似乎没有
recognize that a universe that's created
意识到为我们创造的宇宙有点傲慢，
for us is a little more arrogant
incredibly arrogant
令人难以置信的傲慢
yes and for me that's the most powerful
是的，对于 对我来说，最有力
and enlivening thing is is the fact that
和最生动的事情是这样一个事实，即
the more unimportant we become the more
我们变得越不重要，
the more powerful is is the importance
of science for pointing out that the
科学就越重要，它指出
Universe exists whether we like it or
宇宙存在，无论我们喜欢
not it's a sort of cosmic humility but
与否，这是一种宇宙的谦卑，但
it's the exact opposite of what we're
它是 与我们
often accused of science is responsible
经常指责的科学恰恰相反，它负责
for the for the Justified humility of
humanity which is a new thing
人类正当的谦卑，这是一个新事物
[音乐]是的
yes
Richard the first the ver I remember
理查德，我
vividly the very first time we had a
清楚地记得我们第一次进行
discussion that we disagreed I argued to
我们不同意的讨论的第一个版本 我对
you that I thought that that if you were
你说，我认为，如果你
trying to convince people of your point
试图说服人们相信你的观点，你
that that you shouldn't the first thing
不应该说的第一件事
you shouldn't say is you know everything
就是你知道
you believe is wrong and you're really
你相信的一切都是错误的，你真的很
stupid and and it's better to try and
愚蠢，而且这是 最好尝试一下，呃，
sort of uh go to where they are yeah I I
去他们所在的地方是的，我的
mean I I think I can I myself have been
意思是，我想我可以，我自己已经被
convinced by somebody telling me
有人告诉我
everything you believe is rubbish I mean
你所相信的一切都是垃圾所说服了，我的意思是，当我还是
I was as a student I was very persuaded
一名学生时，我被
by the that old French Theologian tayar
那位老法国神学家说服了 tayar
dasada who wrote a book called The
dasada 写了一本叫做《
phenomenon of man which is pretentious
人的现象》的书，这本书是自命不凡的
gibberish but it fooled me when I was a
胡言乱语，但当我还是个学生的时候，它愚弄了我，
student and then I read Peter meow's
然后我读了 Peter Meow 对这
brilliant review of IT of the book which
本书的精彩评论，这
is almost certainly the best negative
几乎肯定是有史以来最好的负面
book review ever written and I was
书评，我
completely SW turned around by that even
完全被SW转变了，
though you might think I'd have you know
即使你可能认为我会让你知道，
pushed back and said wait a minute
并说等一下，
you're you're insulting my intelligence
你是你在侮辱我的智商
said well yes maybe you are insulting my
说好吧，是的，也许你在侮辱我的
intelligence I deserve to have my
智商，我应该让我的
intelligence insulted people get the in
智商受到侮辱 人们明白，
fact there's a lot of there's a lot of
事实上，有很多
research that says pedagogically the
研究表明，从教学上来说，
only way you can really get people to
真正让人们学习的唯一方法
learn is by conventing their own
是通过他们自己的
misconceptions and using them I do I use
误解并使用它们，我确实在使用
physics all the time you know kids learn
物理，你知道孩子们在
stuff on they you know you write stuff
网上学习东西 他们知道你
on the Blackboard it goes in one year
在黑板上写的东西一年过去一年又
and out the other but if you confront a
过去，但如果你面对
belief they have and and show them
他们的信念并立即向他们表明
immediately that they can see for
他们可以
themselves it's crazy then they remember
亲眼看到这很疯狂，那么他们会记得
yes well this weekend the reason rally
很好，这就是本周末反弹的原因
took over the National Mall here in
接管了
Washington DC build is the largest
华盛顿特区的国家广场，这是世界历史
gathering of the secular movement in
上最大的世俗运动集会，
world history now naal Mall Park Service
现在纳尔购物中心公园管理局
estimated over 30,000 people were in
估计有超过 30,000 人
attendance and despite the rain the
参加，尽管下着雨，
participants waited for hours to see
参与者还是等了几个小时才能见到
speakers like Lawrence Krauss Richard
像劳伦斯·克劳斯·理查德·道金斯这样的演讲者 亚当·
Dawkins Adam Savage so we have to ask
萨维奇（Adam Savage）所以我们不得不问，
what the largest gathering in history of
atheists humanists secularists
无神论者、人文主义者、世俗主义者、
freethinkers Skeptics what does it
自由思想家、怀疑论者历史上最大规模的聚会到底是什么意思
really
mean
I'm David Silverman president of
我是
American atheist and I would like to
美国无神论者大卫·西尔弗曼主席，我想
welcome you all to this the largest
欢迎你们所有人 这是
atheist gathering in world
世界上最大的无神论者聚会
history but I don't believe in God I uh
但我不相信上帝我呃
I have two proofs uh for not believing
我有两个证据呃不相信
God first of all God if you're there
上帝首先上帝如果你在那里
we're here in Washington come down
我们在华盛顿
now if you're there this is a pretty
现在下来如果 你在那里，这是一个非常
good time I'm sure Fox News would love
好的时光，我相信福克斯新闻会喜欢
it just come down say hello we are are
它，只要下来打个招呼，我们是
the people who believe in this life we
相信今生的人，如果你做某事是为了奖励或为了回报，我们
are the people who believe in Morality
是相信道德的人
if you are doing something for reward or
punishment you do not have morality
惩罚你没有道德
let's make it so there is embarrassed to
让我们这样做吧，这样就不好意思
say something bad about atheists as they
说无神论者的坏话，就像他们
are to say something bad about
Mormons
摩门教徒的坏话一样
Mormon
Mormon thank you God for fixing the
cataracts of Sam's mom
I didn't realize that it was so simple
but you're shown a great example of just
但你会看到一个很好的例子来说明
how it can be done you only need to pray
如何做到这一点，你只需要
in a particular spot to a particular
在特定的地点向
version of a particular God and if you
特定上帝的特定版本祈祷，如果你
pull that off without a hitch he will
顺利完成，他就会
fix one eye of one middle class white
修复一个中产阶级的一只眼睛 白
[\h__\h] they are ruled by fear that's not
婊子，他们被恐惧所统治，这不是
my style and it's not yours
我的风格，也不是你们的风格，
either folks it's certainly time that we
伙计们，我们肯定是时候
all grew up instead of forging ahead
长大了，而不是
into the 14th century we should be
迈入 14 世纪，我们应该
embracing the 21st by writing finei to
通过写下美好的信念来拥抱 21 世纪，
belief in the bigoted capricious cruel
相信偏执、反复无常、残酷和
deceitful genocidal homophobic
欺骗。 种族灭绝 恐同
misogynistic racist vindictive and
厌恶女性 种族主义 报复和
violent
暴力
bully ladies and gentlemen thank
欺负女士们先生们 谢谢
you
你们
folks Professor Richard
理查德·道金斯教授
Dawkins
what a magnificent inspiring
多么壮丽鼓舞人心的
sight I was expecting great things even
景象 我期待着伟大的事情 即使
in fine weather in the rain look at this
在雨中的晴朗天气 看看这个
this is the most incredible site I can
这是最棒的 令人难以置信的网站，我
remember ever
记得曾经
seeing how is it NE necessary to have a
见过，为什么有必要为理性举行
rally for
集会
reason how could anyone rally against
怎么可能有人反对
reason I am often accused
理性集会我经常被指责
of expressing contempt and despising
表达蔑视和蔑视
religious people I don't despise
宗教人士我不鄙视
religious people I despise what they
宗教人士我鄙视他们所代表的东西
stand for there are too many people in
this country who have been cowed into
这个国家有太多人被吓倒，
fear of coming out as atheists or
害怕成为无神论者、
secularists or
世俗主义者或
agnostics we are far more numerous than
不可知论者，我们的人数比
anybody
任何人都意识到的要多得多，
realizes what I want to suggest you do
when you meet somebody who claims to be
当你遇到一个自称有宗教信仰的人时，
religious ask them do you really
问问他们你真的信教吗？
believe that when a priest blesses a
相信当牧师祝福一块
wafer it turns into the body of Christ
薄饼时，它会变成基督的身体，
are you seriously telling me you believe
你是认真地告诉我你相信吗，不要相信
that don't fall for the convention that
we're all too polite to talk about
我们都太有礼貌而不愿谈论
religion religion is not off the table
宗教的惯例宗教不是不可能的
religion is not off limits religion
宗教不是 禁区宗教
makes specific claims about the universe
对宇宙提出了具体的主张，
which need to be substantiated and need
这些主张需要得到证实，需要
to be challenged and if necessary need
受到挑战，如果有必要，需要
to be ridiculed with contempt thank you
受到蔑视的嘲笑，非常感谢你
very
yes you mind if we get a picture with
是的，你介意我们和
you sure no
你合影吗？
problem it is so good to meet you can I
问题是，很高兴见到你，我可以
get a picture of you really quick sure
很快拍到你的照片吗？
yeah s you on theb yeah hey Dr BR can I
是的，你就在b是的，嘿，BR博士，我
shake the hand too Mar sure can I shake
也可以握你的手吗？Mar，我当然可以握
your hand really quick your Universal
你的手吗？你的环球
nothing speech started on my started my
没有任何演讲开始于我的开始 我的
Road thank nice meet you I'm Kenny I'm
路谢谢很高兴见到你我是肯尼我
from your book on
来自你关于理查德的书
Richard
science differ it's not like pancake
科学不同它不像煎饼
it's like the space you always thought
它就像你一直认为
you live in where the X Y and Z AIS just
你居住的空间X Y和Z AIS只是
remain perpendicular and light travels
保持垂直并且光
in straight lines that's okay hi
沿直线传播那就是 好吧，大家好，
everybody out there on the mall it's a
商场里的大家好，我很
great honor to be addressing the reason
荣幸能够在理性
rally and when you look at the who's who
集会上发表讲话，当您查看
list throughout history of people who
历史上那些
are either declared atheists or who voed
被宣布为无神论者或
publicly their opinion that religion was
公开表达宗教是
[\h__\h] you can feel a swell of Pride
废话的人的名人录时，您会感到
as you stand out there on the mall today
今天，当你站在商场上时，
let's let everybody know that they can
让我们让每个人都知道，
come out of the closet if they're afraid
如果他们害怕的话，他们可以出柜，
to because we're here to support them
因为我们在这里支持他们
and embrace them because this is an
并拥抱他们，因为这是一个
amazing community of people who are
令人惊叹的社区，
non-believers and I think it's wrong
是非信徒，我认为
that the religious right and our various
宗教权利和我们的各种
belief systems have gotten a monopoly on
信仰体系垄断了
morality and patriotism we are Americans
道德和爱国主义，这是错误的，我们是美国人
and we're moral and righteous Americans
，我们是道德和正义的美国人
and we don't need a God to prove it come
，我们不需要上帝来证明这一点
on out and join
us I have concluded through careful
通过仔细的
empirical analysis and much thought that
实证分析和深思熟虑，我得出结论，
somebody is looking out for me keeping
有人在关注我，
track of what I think about things
跟踪我对事物的想法，
forgiving me when I do less than I ought
当我做得比我应该做的少时原谅我，
giving me strength to shoot for more
给我力量去争取
than I think I'm capable of I believe
比我想象的更多的东西。 我有能力，我相信
they know everything that I do and think
他们知道我所做和所想的一切
and they still love me and I've
，他们仍然爱我，
concluded after careful consideration
经过仔细考虑，我得出结论，
that this person keeping score is
这个记分的人就是
me Emmanuel C was asked what is The
我。Emmanuel C被问到什么是
Enlightenment he said it is app s dare
启蒙，他说这是应用程序的敢于
to
know the Age of Reason then was an age
知道 那时的理性时代是一个
when Humanity was born again not from
人类重生的时代，不是从
original sin but from original ignorance
原罪中重生，而是从最初的无知
and dependence on authority never
和对权威的依赖中重生，永远不会
again folks you're in for treat the
再[鼓掌]各位，请款待《
author of New York Times bestseller a
纽约时报》畅销书作者，一个
universe from
从无到有的宇宙，
nothing please welcome physicist Dr
欢迎光临 物理学家
Lawrence
劳伦斯·
Krauss as we just pointed out I a few
克劳斯博士，正如我们几年前指出的那样，
years ago uh my friend Richard Dawkins
呃，我的朋友理查德·道金斯
asked me to give a talk at a meeting uh
请我在一次会议上发表演讲，呃，
called the universe from nothing so I
宇宙从无到有，所以我
did
today I want to talk about something
今天就这样做了，我想谈论一些
that's equally plausible but much more
同样合理但更多的东西
tragic how to get nothing from
悲惨的是如何从某件事中得到什么
something it's happened a number of
times in human
在人类历史上发生过很多次
history it happened during the Medieval
它发生在中世纪
Era when religious Dogma erased the
时期，当时宗教教条抹去了
enlightenment of the Greeks measuring
希腊人测量地球周长的启蒙运动
the circumference of the earth all of
所有
that was
这一切都被
forgotten it happened in the Arabic
遗忘了它发生在阿拉伯
world in the 11th century when when what
世界 11 世纪，当时的
was then the center of culture and
文化和
Mathematics became an economic and
数学中心由于伊斯兰原教旨主义而成为经济和
intellectual Backwater because of
知识的死水，
Islamic
fundamentalism and it can happen today
这种情况今天也可能发生，
but the 21st century is placing
但 21 世纪给
challenges on us like we've never had
我们带来了前所未有的挑战，
global climate change overpopulation the
全球气候变化、人口过剩、
energy crisis the need finally to
能源危机 最终需要
educate and stop the subjugation of
教育和制止对
women around the
世界各地妇女的征服
Einstein said 60 some odd years ago
六十多年前，爱因斯坦
after we exploded the first atomic
在我们引爆第一枚原子
weapon that everything has changed save
武器后说道，一切都改变了，除了
the way we
我们的
think and unless we change the way we
思维方式，除非我们改变我们的
think and unless we're willing to rever
思维方式，除非我们 愿意尊重
open questioning discussion and a public
公开质疑的讨论和
policy based on reality we can take this
基于现实的公共政策，我们可以
wonderful world we have now in many ways
通过多种方式对待我们现在拥有的这个美好的世界，
and turn something into nothing and we
把一些东西变成虚无，我们
all have to make sure that doesn't
都必须确保这种情况不会
happen thank you very
发生，非常感谢
much it's almost like May B and
这几乎就像May B和
bra and it's more that I can
胸罩，我可以
say
and I
，我
may
可以
bra
胸罩
I and it's almost like
我，这几乎就像
been
一直
I I do see a problem that you can't live
我我确实明白 问题是你不能过
a life based on uh delusion you can't
一种基于呃错觉的生活，你不能一直
hold out reality all the time and just
坚持现实，只能
exist in a in a fake World you've got to
存在于一个虚假的世界里，你
constantly not only be challenging your
不仅要不断挑战自己
own belief Bel but be willing to say
的信念，而且要愿意 说
that you had been wrong and misinformed
你一生都错了，被误导了，
and for your whole life and and change
然后改变
your views otherwise you know uh it's a
你的观点，否则你知道，呃，这
it's a Mindless existence and that's not
是一种无意识的存在，这并不是
to say they don't have the right to
说他们没有权利
believe I believe everyone has the right
相信，我相信每个人都有权利
to believe anything they have the right
相信任何事，他们有权
to believe
相信
anything but I have the right to find
任何事，但我有权发现
that belief ridiculous I I I've had
这种信念很荒谬，我
people on Twitter say things like
在推特上看到有人说，
everyone has the right to their own
每个人都有权发表自己的
opinion so just keep quiet about your
意见，所以对你的无神论保持沉默，这很出色，就在
atheism brilliant there it is there you
那里 你
s you sumed it up for me well
是你，你为我总结得很好，
done I did a courtroom scene on a show
我在一个节目中做了一个法庭场景
and I look at the judge and right above
，我看着法官，在
his head it says In God We Trust I mean
他的头顶上方写着“我们相信上帝”，我的意思是，我
I should have this should have hit me
应该在
before being on The Good Wife but I just
上《善良》之前就受到这一点的打击。 妻子，但我简直
can't believe it I just can't believe
不敢相信，我简直不敢相信，
that's above our that 2012 that's in our
这已经超出了我们法院系统中的 2012 年，
court system these Notions aren't shared
这些观念并没有被
by everyone in
America with religion the stories have
美国每个有宗教信仰的人所认同，这些故事已经
been told over
被讲述了
centuries and science is always telling
几个世纪，而科学总是在讲述
a new story and I think that that's
一个 新的故事，我认为这对于那些将
what's hard for people who hold religion
宗教
as the truth um to understand that
视为真理的人来说很难理解，
science is something that's broader it
科学是一种更广泛的东西，它
doesn't start 6,000 years ago it starts
不是开始于 6,000 年前，而是开始于
four five billion years ago and that is
450 亿年前，这
a really there's a lot more information
确实有更多的内容
in there and the book If We Had A
那里的信息和《如果我们有一
book be a lot thicker and of course we
本书》这本书要厚得多，当然我们
have seen backlash against uh scientific
已经看到了对科学
uh understanding of reality we have seen
呃对现实的理解的强烈反对，我们
it in many religions not only in the
不仅在美国，而且在许多宗教中都看到了这一点，
United States so I I believe there's a
所以我相信有
there's a great value in in promoting
一个伟大的 促进
this kind of work people who like
这种工作的价值喜欢
science are all drawn to for the same
科学的人都被吸引的
reason it explains the physical world
原因相同它解释了物理世界
what is this stuff is is it the last
这东西是什么它是
word on on what reality is and what the
关于现实是什么和
physical world is I don't know but it's
物理世界是什么的最后一句话我不知道 知道，但如果
the it's if if it's not the last word is
这不是最后一个词，
at least the best word in our
至少是我们日益复杂的科技文明中最好的词，
increasingly complex scientific and
technological civilization many policy
许多政策
issues require scientific knowledge how
问题需要科学知识，那么
then can the public exercise Democratic
control if it doesn't understand science
如果公众不理解科学，那么如何行使民主控制
I think it's very important to advance
我认为这是
the pro-science view in the modern world
在现代世界中推进亲科学的观点非常重要，
what could be bad about
advancing uh knowledge and
推进呃知识和
Enlightenment it can only be a good
启蒙运动可能有什么坏处，
thing if you don't get that there is
如果你不明白有
some objective place from which we can
一个客观的地方，我们都可以从这个地方
all start which we call science a place
开始，那么它只能是一件好事。 称科学为
where we get rid of our biases and get
我们摆脱偏见并
back to what we can observe if you don't
回到我们可以观察到的地方，如果你
think think that's the best place to
认为这不是
start these conversations from then
开始这些对话的最佳场所，那么
where do you start them from you have to
你从哪里开始你必须
start from well my evidence shows that
从我的证据开始 表明
gay people are just like me and they
同性恋者就像我一样，他们
love each other or that women are smart
彼此相爱，或者女人很聪明，
the magic book kills discussion you know
魔法书扼杀了讨论，你知道，
I went to um Israel for the first time
the summer before last but people always
前年夏天我第一次去了以色列，但人们总是
say oh you go to Israel you're going to
说哦，你去以色列，你是 将会
be changed forever like you're going to
永远改变，就像你会
feel so connected and I just I mean I
感觉如此紧密相连，我只是我的意思是，我
didn't feel that at all I I went
根本没有感觉到我去的时候，
it just was so when I saw the Western
Wall especially and that this much room
尤其是当我看到西墙时，而且这么多的空间
was for the men and this much room was
是为男人和 这么大的空间是
for the women and they said cover your
给女人们的，他们说盖住你的
shins and cover this up or people will
小腿，盖住这个，否则人们就会向
throw rocks at you you know and it's
你扔石头，你知道，
just like I just felt like f you I all I
就像我只是觉得你是我的
felt all I felt was [\h__\h] you I didn't
感觉，我感觉到的只是操你，我没有
feel connected to anything because it
感觉与任何事物都有联系，因为它
wasn't including me as an equal it's the
不包括我作为平等者，这是
rules it's the arbitary rules he gave
规则，是他给
you free will well then why is he
你自由意志的任意规则，那么为什么他要把
sending me to house for using
我送到家里去使用
it he moves in mysterious ways I mean
它，他以神秘的方式移动我的意思是以
moves in mysterious ways that is the
神秘的方式移动 在
philosophical equivalent of going n
哲学上相当于
running away I don't you know it's it's
逃跑 我不知道你知道这是以
strange moves in mysterious ways what's
神秘的方式奇怪的举动
the difference between a random God and
随机的上帝和根本
no God at all that's what I'd say I
没有上帝之间有什么区别这就是我想说的我
think people don't really believe the
认为人们并不真正相信这些
myths they invent I've been to many
神话 他们发明我参加过很多
funerals uh in which um the priest has
葬礼，嗯，在葬礼上，牧师
spoken of an afterlife and even the
谈到了来世，甚至
people who were there are sobbing
在场的人都在
profusely they don't really think
哭泣，他们真的认为
they're going to meet their loved one in
5 years time if on the other hand you
五年后他们不会见到他们所爱的人，如果 另一方面，你
stood on the key side and watch the
站在关键一边，看着
Queen Mary set off in New York the
玛丽女王号在纽约出发，
people on the key side are not crying
关键一边的人并没有哭，
because they know they're going to see
因为他们知道很快就会再次见到
those people again fairly soon a funeral
那些人，葬礼
is fundamentally different yet it should
是根本不同的，但它 应该
be the same I think myths are like a
是一样的，我认为神话就像一种
drug I think a lot of people would
药物，我想很多人
rather just take the myth pill that
宁愿只服用神话药丸，
makes them feel like nice and cozy and
让他们感觉美好、舒适、
warm and and fuzzy and okay with
温暖、模糊、对
everything rather than having to look at
一切都满意，而不是不得不看看
the reality of what the world actually
现实 世界到底
is because it's so big but then I think
是什么，因为它太大了，但我认为
what's so great about the world being so
世界这么
big or the universe being so big is that
大或宇宙这么大的伟大之处在于它太大了，
it's so big and that is so cool you know
这太酷了，你知道
early Christians were called atheists by
早期的基督徒被罗马人称为无神论者，
the Romans cuz they didn't believe in
因为他们 我不相信
all the gods I love that I mean that's
所有我爱的神，我的意思是，这就是
what atheism is really it's the in one
无神论的真正含义，它是
less God than
比你少的一个神，
you the the whole forward movement of
trying to do this thing give people the
尝试做这件事的整个前进运动给人们提供了
opportunity to be educated to a point
接受教育的机会，直到
where they don't have to lean on stuff
他们不相信的程度。 不必依赖那些
that's probably not there is a worthy
可能不存在的东西，这是一个有价值的
cause you have to be able to offer
原因，你必须能够为
someone alternatives to the way they
某人提供他们看待世界的方式的替代方案，
view the world or how can they learn
或者他们如何学习
something I mean you can't you can't
一些东西，我的意思是你不能，你不能
keep teaching someone something they
继续教别人 他们
already know if you so are so attached
已经知道的事情，如果你如此执着
to your belief system that you stop
于你的信仰体系，以至于你因为
listening listening out of fear of that
害怕受到
being challenged you know or or
挑战而停止倾听，你知道或
shaken you're
动摇你已经
dead most scientists are not up for this
死了，大多数科学家都不愿意参加这种
game of taking on these things and
承担这些事情并
having it become a forum but uh once you
拥有的游戏 它变成了一个论坛，但是呃，一旦你
start to step up in front of doubters
开始站在你认识的怀疑者面前，
who you know it becomes this idea of
它就变成了这样的想法：
really can you change people's minds
你真的能从这场辩论中改变人们的想法吗？
from this debate or are you just like
还是你就像
taking Rock and bashing each other's
拿摇滚乐来敲打彼此的
brains
一样